Creative Avoidance (D&K)

In today’s episode we’re talking about stress, uncertainty and the ways we avoid it.

(You may notice a new show format: We’re shedding the ‘business’ style podcast name so we can get more personal. We hope these conversations between two father, business men and friends are valuable in your own lives as a parent, business owner and human being.)

Dale was feeling a bit flat a the start of this session so we decided to use a bit of a trick that can help you feel better: asking questions and being interested in someone else.

Kyle had recently had some insights about keeping busy in order to avoid his emotions so the pair kick off talking about that and Kyle shares what has been helping him be more present.

If you’re feeling stressed, anxious or uncertain about the state of the world right now, this one is for you.

Listen:

Subscribe to The Dale & Kyle Show in your favourite podcast player: Google | Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher | Email

Links to things we mentioned:

• Website: Wade Brill
• Website: Andy Hobson
• App: Insight Timer
• Meditation: Peace Walking Meditation
• Dale’s website: Energetic Education
• Kyle’s website: Bootcamp Ideas

Transcript:

Dale Sidebottom: All right,

Everyone. Welcome back to the Dale and Kyle show today. We’re going to be talking about 99 problems. Before I get into that. My name’s Dale Saba. I’m joined by my good mate.

Kyle Wood: Hello.

Dale Sidebottom: Hello. I call great to see you and hear from you as always now. Um, I’m going to do more of this sort of questioning today, mate, because we just had a little chat off and I feel like I’ve got a lot of problems and 99 is probably not enough at the moment.

I don’t want to be negative. Cause I think, um, yeah, if we just listen to negativity all the time and um, I know I always feel a little bit better when I’m productive and I feel that. Feeding some good questions that you today is going to really help me and kicks out my week. So how are you winning?

Kyle Wood: I’m very good.

Thank you. Uh, oh, like, man, I try to leave. We, you asked me how I was and I think we’ve talked about this last night. Totally did the thing of like, uh, yeah, well, I, yeah, I am doing a ride this week. Um, and that’s probably what I want to talk about because we were chatting about how, uh, I’ve lost my train of thought.

Sorry.

Dale Sidebottom: Aren’t you going to go with your fight when we’re in a state or like you’re going to school. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Thank you. So when we, yeah, stuck, you know, in the shit we’re in the swamp, we’re in the Maya way, it can be, you know, it’s maybe not the best time to be like sharing publicly how I feel. I mean, we, to be able to do this opposite on social media, but if you’re aligned on your social media comments and likes to make you feel better, that’s something else we can unpack at some point.

Um, but I think, yeah, that’s the time to have personal or. Conversations with friends and people, you trust the therapists, things like that, um, to help with that. Uh, and I guess, yeah, what we want to keep on this podcast is, um, We still want to share when we’ve been through shit, but we want to share, you know, at the afterwards, like what do we do to help?

Cause I think that’s what you want to know when you’re in it as well. You want to know like where’s the light at the end of the tunnel, you know, w what direction can I stop moving in? And I think you’ve done a great job as well, Dale in the past at sharing, um, things like that. And you’re still in a lockdown at the moment.

And I think it’s very natural. To be like here emotions even day to day are going to be different on Groundhog day going, especially working from home. Plus again, I definitely have those days where I come in the office and like, ah, um, anyway for me, what, what started happening was I noticed that I was, I was being very, like very busy and not necessarily like busy, productive, Busy.

So by that, I mean, like not necessarily working on my business and doing things to make it better or improve or whatever, although that was part of it. And, and certainly I felt good when I was working on my business because that was an area of my life. I felt like I could change, whereas the rest of my life.

You know, sort of was, was out of control. But when I went into the computer and then to the online world, he was things I could impact and change. And so they, when I was coming back out of, um, in, into the rest of my life, um, I really was having. Compulsion to be doing something, cleaning something, cooking something, uh, gardening.

Um, you know, I, I play board games on this website with my friends, you know, on their playing, you know, like got my phone out and, you know, taking turns on board games. Like you’re like checking reef, refreshing that’s that’s in some ways my Instagram like on like, well, is it my turn yet? Is it my turn yet?

Um, what else was,

Dale Sidebottom: you were masking all your feelings and emotions by being

Kyle Wood: busy? Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn’t even let myself sit down and watch TV. Cause that felt too passive. It had to be something active that kind of like tricked my brain into thinking it was being productive. Uh, and, and th that feeling of like just relaxing reading a book, watching a movie or.

You know, just sitting there with my daughter and not too much of anything while she played was just so uncomfortable. And I couldn’t even bear the thought of, of facing that level of uncomfortability, which was really different for me. Like in the past, I’d be like, I’ll notice, become aware of something like that.

And I’d be like, okay, I’m going to work on that. And it was like, even the thought of trying to build into like a, a mindfulness habit or some sort of relaxation habit was just like, Yeah, just

Dale Sidebottom: couldn’t couldn’t so it was sort of like you weren’t, you didn’t want to allow yourself to be bored. And I think that’s a, that’s a really common thing, particularly today with our devices and our phones and any spare second that we, uh, uh, like I’m not doing something, what do you do?

You naturally go through your phone? Um, and I think, like you’re saying you were scared of what that feeling would be like, so you just didn’t want to allow yourself to get.

Kyle Wood: Yeah. I was scared of what, what was underneath because, you know, and I guess I knew I was struggling, but I was afraid of yeah. What, what, what that pain or, you know, being confronted with with that, we, I would feel like, so.

Did you

Dale Sidebottom: face it? So once he, obviously we’re talking about it now, um, that’s, you’ve obviously overcome that and you’ve figured out things that you need to do. And I’m sure there’s a, I don’t know, I’m just guessing, but different daily routines that are helping you do that. Is that something that

Kyle Wood: I feel like I I’m.

Yeah. Um, yeah. And I’ll talk about that. Yeah. I’d like to share sort of, but I think, um, yeah, will share about that. So for me, I obviously in my head, I was like, yeah, I need to start meditating again. Cause that’ll help me create that, that more mindfulness again. But I just couldn’t, I couldn’t even, because I had to be busy all the time, even the idea of sitting down for three minutes and meditating, it’s just like, I can’t, I can’t do it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s sort of where I was. So I was chatting to a friend of mine and we’re talking about it, this like, why? Cause I, I was, I was fixated on, okay, I just need the right meditation routine or like the right. You know, I don’t have the right app or I need like a different approach or a different style of mindfulness.

You know, you talk about player, what day? Like, you know, doing something else. Um, And I was like, oh yeah, that’s, that’s just what I need. But I wasn’t, I guess still noticing what was causing that block in the first place. And so for me, it was, um,

it was a lot of, we talked about this before a lot of shooting. Like I was like, I should, or I need to start this meditation habit. And so then, you know, There’s like a natural resistance that comes up. Um, when we like should, should, should, um, I should be doing this. I should be doing that. Um, and we’ve got enough on our plate.

And I think, you know, with the state of Australia, Australia at the moment, even avoiding the news is still like a low level of stress. Like an anxiety, just, just this constant. Um, and it’s, it’s exhausting and super tight. And I think that in the past, maybe my willpower would have overcome that resistance, but it was already kind of staving off this.

It’s already exhausted from this like low level stress that we’ve got going on at the moment. Um, so yeah, it was really chatting to my friend and realizing. That I wasn’t giving myself, um, that permission to slow down and that I needed to come, not from that, like should ankle, but more from that, this is something.

It’s hard to put it

Dale Sidebottom: really done the season I get too. So I get to slow down. Like I get to meditate instead of what I mean, like when you frame something as a negative or you put pressure on yourself and it doesn’t all, it becomes a chore. If you reframe it as like it’s a luxury or it’s something that you privileged to have the time to do.

I get to go on a podcast I get to do, you know what I mean? Like little things like that in a way, reframe something, it really hits those chemicals in your brain. And it turns around from being a task that, you know, you have to do like a, to do list one that you don’t want to do instead of like, oh, I can’t wait to do that.

And I know it seems silly, but little things like that when you are in a bit of a funk. Yeah. Yep.

Kyle Wood: Yeah. And I think, yeah, just chatting to someone else about it as well, and getting like a different she’s a coach. So that helped because she knew the right questions to ask and things like that. But yeah, someone, a friend like that can be really helpful in times like that.

And the next morning, um, like I have my shower and instead of like, going back in the kitchen, came into my office where I’ve got a little meditation spot set up and I was like, all right, I’m gonna sit. And, um, and do this meditation and it was such a weird feeling. Cause it was like, it was just like, Ugh, shit, I really needed this.

Like when I actually got to stop, there was actually like pleasure in that because I was actually, I, yeah, because I had been going, going, going, going, going, I hadn’t like just rested. And I had like a, a guided meditation on, which helps us, has like the. He does music with it, which I think is like the binaural beats, which sort of gets you into that.

I’m going to start saying stuff you that’s wrong, but anyway, it gets you into that meditative state faster. Um, and it, it, the meditation was for a busy mind as well. I was like, this is a perfect one because I feel like that’s what’s happening. My mind is going, going, going, and I’m kind of escaping it. But by looking at, you know, finding other activities to busy me, And those one line in the meditation where towards the end, where you sort of keep coming back to like noticing your thoughts and he does this sort of helpful practice where you label the thoughts, you might be like thinking judging, uh, all record playing.

So like once you become aware of the thought and then you just sort of let it go. And that’s, that’s kind of a nice way to like, acknowledge the thought rather than like dismissing it as we sit altogether. And then at the end he’s like, oh, I noticed that there’s awareness before the thought and that there’s awareness after the thought.

So like, you have a moment of awareness before the thought and MERS, and then he’s like, and then notice that you are not your thoughts, that you are the awareness, like you’re that awareness underneath. And that was just like, I mean, I’ve done, I’ve done Zen stuff, meditation, I’ve done Buddhist. Like, but yeah, it just, I needed to hear that again at that moment.

And that was just so freeing that it’s like these thoughts that I’ve been terrified of, terrified of spending time alone with just being like, oh, that’s not, that’s not actually me. That’s not who I am. Um, yeah, that was, that was a big, that was a moving moment for.

Dale Sidebottom: And have you continued doing that daily since?

Or is it something that you just do when you feel you need it

Kyle Wood: with trying to do it? Um, H H day I’ve also found a good walking meditation. So that’s a good, you might like that, Dale. Um, so I do

Dale Sidebottom: the same. You don’t shut your highs

Kyle Wood: no night. So I do headphones and my headphones have this, like here. So I can still hear like the rest of my surroundings, but I’m also getting, I think again, within music unit, you want to have both ears in it the way it works.

And, um, he. Yeah. He just sort of guides you through like awareness of your body as you’re walking. So instead of like sitting there, you’re going through your awareness of your body. And then I don’t know, it’s like the music or something. It’s like being a little kid again. It’s like, oh my gosh, look at that tree.

And like a bird or flat and just stuff. It’s the same walk I do down to the beach that I’ve done a bazillion times suck moved here and I just don’t take any of it in. But then when we’re like, when I’m listening to that, I just have the awareness. It’s like, oh my gosh, Uh, planet, there’s a world outside of my head or outside of the, you know, the house that I live in.

Uh, yeah, I’ve just really been enjoying that one as well. So that’s a good one. When I don’t actually want to sit, I’m feeling resistance to like sitting still, I I’m always up for a walk or I’ll even use it commuting to get a coffee because the meditation is only about 12 minutes, but it takes me like 20 minutes to walk to the coffee shop.

So, um, yeah. Uh, yeah, that’s been a good one too. They have good old sort of backup.

Dale Sidebottom: Yeah. Cool. And I suppose that active, you’re still moving your body. So you’re getting sort of the, the mindful benefits as well. As of, so with that all being said, Was that enough, just slowing down to kickstart you back on or has there been other things you’ve done as well?

That, um, yeah. Cause I’m keen to try that walking. I don’t really feel like sitting in the mind when doing your meditation

Kyle Wood: like that in the house. Again,

Dale Sidebottom: I don’t really pay for that, but if 12 minutes I can dedicate that on a walk. No dramas. Yeah. Was there anything else that, you know, you’ve done it.

Kyle Wood: No, I think that’s actually been part of it because I was thinking, you know, I need to meditate.

You know, I need to spend less time on my phone. And I, uh, I like all these things, too many, too many shirts that I would want it to change. And so just changing this one thing, um, has been really helpful and just trusting that, like, if I just focus on that process, um, but you know, I’m already feeling.

I feel like more grateful. I’ve noticed like more of a sense of gratitude. I have noticed, I think because these other emotions are coming to the surface, like surface, I’ve been a bit grumpier since starting this, but I’m also dislike allowing that and being like, it’s probably just cause I’m sure.

Because I’m actually allowing this stuff to come up rather than discovering myself out, honestly. Yeah. So I’m just sort of trusting. All right. I’m just going to do one thing, not going to like stop, like, you know, I think we do that. We see if it will do that with breath, from the fitness professional, um, you know, people, you know, start going there, go to the gym and they won’t go to the gym, commit to going to the gym three times a week.

They’ll commit to go to the gym every single day. And then they’ll, you know, and the new diet and the new thing and our. I feel like crap and I still do it. So yeah, I think that’s something also I’m trying to do is just like, all right. Just one thing and, um, stick to that and do it well. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s helping me become more aware of everything else.

And then same thing. Like I just trying to notice. Um, so when I’m noticing that should, or I’m noticing, uh, an activity or behavior that I’m like, oh gosh, you know, I shouldn’t be doing this or I should do something else right now. Like instead of doing that, I’m just like, oh, I’m just going to become aware of it.

And so checking in with myself and sometimes that’s enough to like change activity or sometimes, you know, I’ll keep doing it, but at least I’ve had that like moment of awareness, which I think is.

Dale Sidebottom: Um, and I suppose when you are going through, oh, no, you’re not in the best head space that you know of the things that make you, that the work for you normally.

Um, and I think we’re aware of, and like you said, you should, should, should, should that simple rephrase. I get to, and just select one domain. You don’t try and be a hero and go and do it all, like you said, but I get to do this daily. Do that make a commitment? Like you said, it’s, it’s not Willy nilly. Um, it’s not germane.

If you’re going to learn a new language or ride a bike, you don’t just do it once a month. And then you pick that skill up. It’s something you need to do daily. Um, forming that positive habit of routine. It’s like having a shower, we shower every day to be clean. It’s the same with, you know, you’re meditating to clear that noise in your head or to reframe so you can slow down instead of blocking it up, wrapping it up, putting to the side and, and not letting it come out because we know when we do that, that eventually comes out bigger, better.

Stronger than ever. And it knocks us for six, so we’ve laid it coming out and you’ve got to feel those emotions. And like, if you said, like, I know the ups and downs, I’m going through that when I do allow myself to feel it, that if you’re pretty negative and you feel pretty bad, but I need to go through those emotions because if I don’t allow myself to then who they’re eventually going to come out and it’s not going to be pretty good.

Kyle Wood: Uh, yeah, it comes out sideways and we’re, I think, you know, as, as men, we say that a lot as well. Like, um, the, the stoic command of stoicism has got some good stuff in it, but yeah, the, the sort of idea of the stoic man who never shows these emotions, uh, yeah, it’s not, it’s not super helpful. What movie did we watch the other day that I had a good cry at?

And that was, that was big for me because I feel like. A few years ago, I was like very, I was able to cry easily, which I thought was a good thing because it actually like helped me move through emotions and grief and sadness, and then I’d be all right. And I’d feel better. And then, um, I think, you know, becoming a dad, he, you go through that period of like sleep deprivation.

You really do have to like, um, or up, and I’ve had more trouble like crying when I feel sad about things. And, uh, we. Um, actually, I’ve got something to share. That’s made me that’s remind me, I’ve got something to share. And of this podcast you liked how I shared it was a real story.

Uh, but yeah, crying. Yeah. W it was like a kid’s movie watch with Stacy and 80. We’re watching 80, of course,

which I guess that’s going to get anyone, you know, the state of the entities, like saying goodbye to them. And I was like, the tears coming down my eyes. I was watching.

Dale Sidebottom: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah. So, um, so that, that I saw that I saw was a good sign. Like we’re talking about feeling your emotions, so, yeah.

Dale Sidebottom: Yeah. And that’s sad.

I think it’s important to be able to let those out. And sometimes they come out with. When you don’t expect it. I know of called a few times throughout the last 18 months, just at random times because I’ve been locked. It, you just, you feel like it’s unfair and things you’re going through, but that’s in a way it’s, you’ve got to do that.

You’ve got to allow that to happen. Um, and if it’s watching a, or it’s sitting in your office by yourself, when you feel like everything’s just going pish, but it doesn’t really matter. You need to allow that to happen. Yeah. What’s this quote, mate, give me a quick story.

Kyle Wood: So last week, since that sad news, I had a, like a member, you know, I think I’ve talked before about, I went to.

To this camp in America, it was like summer camp for adults. Anyway, one of the other regular attendees of that, um, passed away from brain cancer last week. Thanks. Um, she left, uh, she did the other night. I don’t know if she scheduled this and she had a friend posted it or, but she, she posted to her, to her Facebook wall.

Uh, I messaged, she had pre-written about, um, just sharing, um,

Uh, her sort of final thoughts on life towards the end. Um, it is kind of like, I don’t, do you want to hear the whole thing or you want me to just read the end?

Dale Sidebottom: Well, I read the good bits. Don’t give me too much cause they know I’ve got to process it. I’m not that intelligent on eight punch punchline.

Kyle Wood: I feel like I’m yeah.

Okay. I’ll I’ll I’ll skip down here a bit. Okay. So she’s talking about, she, she talks about, um, reaching the end of her life and this idea that she hadn’t found the love of her life. And so, and then she talks about friendships and some insights on that. So I’ll read these last couple sentences. So she says, um, Surround yourself with people who contradict that unkind voice, people who see your light and remind you who you are, an amazing soul.

Learn how to receive these reflections from your people because they are speaking the truth. Love yourself, no matter how weird and silly it might feel every morning. Give yourself a hug before your feet hit the floor. Look deeply into your eyes in the mirror. Say to yourself out loud. I trust. That voice in your head might say, you’re a dork.

Ignore it. As I prepare to leave this body and a Bach on this mysterious journey of my soul, I hope these observations from my deathbed at somehow useful. What I know deep in my bones is that learning to love myself has led me to be able to say this. I’m so proud of how I lived. May you feel the same when you head out on your soul journey too, until then enjoy the ride and always eat dessert first, especially if there’s pie.

Dale Sidebottom: I like that. It’s like one of my favorite books always eat ice cream first or something like that. Really leave little off. Don’t be a, I think that people can relate to that. Somehow. Look, I’m not telling everyone to go and eat ice cream or cake, but what it really means is if you want something. Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah. Uh, earlier on in it, she, she kinda refers to there. She talks about, are you running towards life or running away from death? That was a piece of advice that was given to her early on her journey with battling, sorry. She actually says, don’t say battling cancer on her journey with cancer. Um, she, yeah.

And so that was a cool. That that helped to sort of come to terms with death. And also, yeah, this concept of like, you know, we were talking before this call about fear, like we spent so much of our lives in fear, fear of what other people will think about us, fear of, um, Fear of doing the things that we, we want to do.

Um, and that’s that, that sort of fear of, of death, but we are, what are we, what are we doing to enjoy life? How are we running towards.

Dale Sidebottom: Um, well, it’s just reframing really. Isn’t it like, like your friend that it’s not battling cancer, that it’s the next stage germane and how can she enjoy that? And it’s like, instead of saying, I should do this, I get to like, and I know you don’t want to say I’ll get to do cancer.

Like it’s not that, but that’s the reality that some people face other people will face other things. And you can look at it one way or you can think poor me and by the sand things away, she’s reframed that and lived it, that she’s left on good terms. Whereas a lot of people wouldn’t be liked and that’s the power of changing the way you perceive something.

Um, and a lot of time it’s not fair, but a lot of time you can’t control that anyway. So you might as well get on with it the best way you can. And that’s as hard as it is. People are going through all different things, but you’ve got an opportunity, I suppose, to. Think about the way you act and turn up each day because that’s on you.

It’s not on anyone else. They control maybe other things that you control your attitude and the way you view things.

Kyle Wood: Yep. Absolutely.

Dale Sidebottom: Very good. Very good. Thanks for sharing again. Great man. Appreciate your insights. And it was, as you said, it’d be nice. I feel better now just for accents and questions and actively

Kyle Wood: listening and ask how you’re feeling.

Yeah.

Dale Sidebottom: I’ve actually, you know, I’ve challenged myself in a, in a different way that, um, yeah, I probably would not have done that if I hadn’t done this podcast with you. So. Yeah. If people are always singing, you sort of get a bit of a funk. Like I find myself at the moment, um, do something that, you know, will make you feel better, but, um, and that might be, if you don’t have the motivation, do it by yourself, then you might have a buddy, a friend, a partner, somebody like that, that will just by doing it or help you.

So, thanks for thanks. You’re

Kyle Wood: very welcome. Good to see you, buddy. Likewise, say

Dale Sidebottom: guys.